Ep. 353 Three Questions That Can Change Your Life – A Farewell Gift from Dr. Anita Sanz

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast, brought to you by Recovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey. They share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us, instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co-host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:32] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us, as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real. and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope despite what depression tells you. 

Terry [00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by Recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. 

Anita [00:01:27] Hi Terry. 

Terry [00:01:27] Hello, Anita. So this is a question more for our listeners than for you. Have you ever had a really good therapist, someone who taught you or helped you realize life hacks that help in your daily life with or without depression? We would bet an unfortunate number of you said no. But that's changing, at least for this episode. Anita, who's been working with clients for over two decades, has pulled together three questions that she says help her and her clients to find direction and protect their mental health. 

Anita [00:02:00] And, you know, Terry, there are so many versions of these kinds of life -focused questions that therapists will use. But over the years of using lots of them, I found that these three questions consistently seem to help the most if you're struggling with a really, really challenging situation. And I've even modified them today just slightly to hopefully make them even more effective if the issue or the challenging situation that you're struggling with is depression. And I've asked myself these questions so many times throughout the years. I've used them with really great results for myself, as well as with my clients and friends and family members. And I just really wanted to share them here. 

Terry [00:02:40] And anybody who has listened to us more than this episode knows that we don't oversimplify or polish things. So if you say these are helpful, they really are. This isn't a three easy ways, you know, this is something that a really caring and dedicated therapist has honed and is offering as a gift to us today. It's sort of a farewell gift. This is a bittersweet episode. This is going to be Anita's last as co -host. I can hardly say that, Anita. After three years of recording weekly episodes and also helping with our daily social media messaging, she's leaving to pursue new challenges and life goals. And we will miss her contributions and insights to this podcast. But she's also leaving with a strong message of hope, which is her trademark, and these questions that I believe will help us get through difficult times. 

Anita [00:03:34] And Terry, it is really, really bittersweet for me because you know I have loved being a part of this podcast so much. And it is really hard to believe that it's been three years because I feel like the time has just flown by. And change and transitions are really hard because it does mean that something has to end. But, you know, I always say that when something ends, something new begins, we all know that. And I'm not sure yet what form my new beginning is going to take. But as you said, you know, my passion is about hope whispering, and so I do think that probably whatever my next endeavor is going to be, it'll be about building hope in some way. I kind of feel like that's something that we're all going to need. 

Terry [00:04:19] Absolutely. I think a lot of us — if not all of us — can use some clear, doable, real-world-tested life tips right now. So if you're ready, I'm ready (I'm ready.) Let's jump in. Here again is Dr. Anita Sanz, giving her voice to depression. 

Terry [00:04:45] Hit us with the first question. 

Anita [00:04:48] Well, before I do that, I'll just, I'll say a couple of things that I usually tell both my clients or if I'm giving a talk about this. I'll tell people, you know, open up the notes section in your phone and just type these questions in as we go through, because these are not just questions for today. These are questions that you can and should pull out, throughout your life, you know, whenever you're trying to get some sense of direction or when you're struggling with anxiety or with depression. So I always just tell people, go ahead and type these things in or, you know, since this is a podcast, they could just share this to a folder on their phone or on their computer and it'll always be there to reference. (Good tip.) And then the other thing is we go through these questions that I want to say is that you don't have to have the answers right now to any of these questions. We are all works in progress and we each will kind of grow into the answers. If we give them time and if we just sit and listen and just let the answers kind of come to us, you'll eventually get the answers that are right for you. 

Terry [00:05:50] Let's jump into the first question. I'm curious. 

Anita [00:05:53] All of these questions are very, very deeply rooted in the science of how our minds work and what will unshake us out of a groove or a rut that we don't want to be in? (Okay.) So magic question number one is what dream would you explore if you felt fully supported? So what dream would I explore if I felt fully supported? And I love this question so much because when we're depressed, when we are stuck, and, you know, it could be about anything, we often don't really feel like we have support. We don't feel safe. Depression starts telling us all of those lies that failure is pretty much the only possible outcome of anything so why even try why even bother and what this question does is sort of break your mind out of that prison Because it's asking in a really positive way what if it is safe to dream and to explore and It starts to open up the space for some possibilities. And then here's kind of the science part of why this works is we know that with depression, our neurons get very lazy. They stop communicating with other neurons and just get into that groove of it's bad, it's always been bad, it's always going to be bad, and there's the rut. A question like this, like what dream would I explore if I felt fully supported is sort of like making some neurons start to communicate with other neurons that they've been kind of distant neighbors with for a while. And that breaks open the possibility of your brain to start working in a different way than depression will kind of make it work. Or not work, I guess is the better way to say it. 

Terry [00:07:45] Do you have an example of a time that asking that question and coming up with an answer — even contemplating the answer — helped you or somebody in your life? 

Anita [00:08:02] Yeah, you know, I think that as a person who started two different businesses and I wrote two different books and, you know, a long time ago I started to write on Quora and none of those were things that felt, like, natural to me. They weren't things that I thought I could do. So the not knowing how to do things or not knowing how I was going to get from here to there would have shut down that process. But by saying, well, what would I explore if I felt fully supported? That broke open possibilities because then you're way more free to dream. You have permission now because the sky's the limit if you're fully supported, right? So if you're dealing with depression, we know one of the biggest lies that depression tells you is that you're alone. Nobody's there. Nobody will understand. Nobody cares. Nothing good is going to happen. You'll never get out of this. It's all of the stuff that again just says why bother even dreaming or thinking about anything positive in the future. And it's a prison of doom. It's just awful. Everyone who's been depressed or stuck knows that feeling, that stuck energy. So if you're allowed to dream, then you can use that as your compass. You've got your true North. And then no matter what decisions that you need to make, or even if, at the moment, you're buried underneath depression or an avalanche, you can't even get out of bed, or every time you try to go into the future all you see are obstacles, your compass reading for your true North is still gonna be there. It's gonna be there if you're laying in bed and you can't get up yet. 

Terry [00:09:42] And as I'm hearing you... as somebody who lives with depression, I'm thinking "fully supported?" ... like, come on. I would say many, if not most of us feel like we're not, but you're not saying, assume you are, you're saying, what would you do if? So it's not like, I can't, because I'm not, it allows us to kind of jump over that hurdle and say, but if, and then from there we have a better chance because ... we're allowing ourselves to dream or are we still like, yeah, but I'm not fully supported. And I never mean to seem like the eeyore between the two of us. 4(Oh, no, no.) But it might be. 

Anita [00:10:16] No, absolutely not. But it is the positive what-if instead of the catastrophic what-if. Again, we're free to dream if we could be fully supported. Not that we are. And again, this is you might not have anything with you, within you, around you at the moment that you're asking that question that would make you feel like I should even be allowed to dream. It could just feel like nope, it's all hopeless and that's all I'm feeling and that's all I'm seeing. But this question forces your brain out of that place just for a moment by saying, what if? The most important thing is just to shake the system up. It's to do something different. Any small, the tiniest step, the tiniest change can begin a process of more and more and more. It begins an upward spiral instead of the downward, just falling apart kind of thing. So that's what we want our brains to do when we're depressed is go, whoa, that's different. I don't usually think like this. I don't usually give myself any option of dreaming or thinking about what I really, really want. It's the other direction. So this is one of the reasons this is such a powerful question. 

Terry [00:11:37] Being able to even conceive of possibilities when you're feeling like there are none. I understand how that could be really helpful and point you in a direction, so. (Yeah.) Cool. (Okay, so.)

Anita [00:11:49] Magic question number two. (Number two.) I love all of these so much, but this is probably one of my favorites. And that the question is, what if life is an adventure and not a mission? What if it's an adventure and not a mission? So what in your mind, Terry, is how do you how you determine the difference between an adventure and a mission? 

Terry [00:12:12] Mm, the mission is a lot of work and it's very goal-oriented, sort of pointing in one direction. And in adventure, you know, there's a little allowing there's a little taking your hands off the steering wheel and and being carried a bit is that that's what came into my mind right away.

Anita [00:12:29] No, I love that energy. That's exactly right. So the way I think about the difference between missions and adventures is, do you remember those really awful story problems we used to have in math class? (If a train going  ...) If a train going this many miles, yeah. All right, so I've given people a trigger warning who have math anxiety, like I do. (That's me, I'll be tuning out.) Okay, all right, so it sounds a little bit like that, but I promise, it'll make sense at the end, so ... Okay, so if you have to get from point A, which we know, say we're starting right here, point A, and we got to get to point B, which we also know, and we have a certain amount of time, we have a certain amount of resources to start with, and you've got to get to point B, otherwise you lose, you fail — that's a mission. That's like, think about all the mission impossible.  (Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.) So yeah, you have to be successful in this way. in this amount of time, reaching this place, otherwise bad things are gonna happen. So lots of stress, you said a lot of work, a lot of stress, that's exactly right. (Yep, high stakes.) A lot is on the line. So if, however, we're going to start from point A, which we know, and we're gonna go to point B, but that point is unknown. We don't know where point B is gonna be, and we're gonna do it in a completely uncertain amount of time. We have no idea how long it's gonna take. We're going to have a certain amount of resources to start with, but there's an unknown amount of resources that we may discover along the way. And when we get to point B — to the outcome — it's not going to be measured by any of those usual quantifiable measures of success or failure. Instead, with this thing we're going to ...

Anita [00:14:32] Right? (Right.) We know where we started from. Sometimes we think we know where we're going and then there's this detour There's a path or we fall into that pit, right? Ground can literally open up around you and you've got to find your way out to keep going on this adventure. You have to make new paths. You've got to double back. You've got to like oh, I thought I was going this direction but you know that's flooded — gotta go this way now. Sometimes when things are really bad It's like one minute at a time but every minute is an adventure into this unknown, and it's okay that it's unknown. And it's okay that you don't have everything that you need yet, but if we keep going, we're gonna find things, right? And I really feel like this question is so important because you can screw up a mission in a million different ways, right? But you can't screw up an adventure. Mistakes and failures and doubling back and redoing and learning — that's what it's all about. And this will break you out of a stuck place if you can remind yourself, what if life is an adventure and not a mission? And ask yourself that question. 

Terry [00:15:41] I hadn't heard any of these questions before we started recording, so I'm reacting in real time here. But the thought of considering going through the good and all the bad as courageous, as opposed to, because I'm having bad things happen in my life, I'm somehow failing because other people, you know, all seem to be, because we're seeing, you know, a very curated version of their lives, they all seem to be getting it right. So this feels so much better. It's like ... When it's hard it's like yeah it's really hard right now and I'm still taking these little baby steps forward and you know I've gotten through stuff in the past I will get through stuff in the future and, in between, hopefully have some of the fun part of the adventure. 

Anita [00:16:22] Yeah, I really like that you're pointing out how, how deadly comparing yourself to someone else is. And again, if we're going with this idea that life is an adventure and not a mission, you should not be comparing yourself to anybody else. Because the adventure is about you being in this life as you. 

Terry [00:16:41] I'm inspired to try it because the last time I probably used the word I used it with my children who are now adults and I would look at them both and just say like "Hey who wants to go on an adventure?" (Right.) Well who's going to say no to that and we may have been going to the laundromat or the grocery store — whatever it was — but we made it more fun because we had labeled it an adventure as opposed to "We've got some chores to do. Get in the car." So as it sits with me I'm being more receptive to it and I have such a resistance to fun because who has that when they have depression. I like it. (Good. Good.)  I like it. Okay I had to sit with it for a minute though. Okay, number three: drum roll, please ...

Anita [00:17:18] What if I am stronger than I think I am? So what if you are stronger than you think you are? Yep. We've had some life experience, Terry, and even if you don't have a lot, you already know that there are gonna be thousands of times in your life that you're not gonna feel strong, maybe hundreds of thousands of times. And for some people, and at some times in our lives, it's a daily experience. We do not feel strong at all. And ... In those times, we start that whole process of doubting ourselves and doubting our ability even to engage successfully in life. And all of those things that we end up trying to deal with in the mental health realm, like stress and depression and anxiety and fear, all create that kind of doubt and that feeling of feeling more weak instead of strong. And so in your darkest time, the most important question that you can ask is what if I am stronger than I think I am? 

Terry [00:18:18] Shoot shoot shoot. 

Anita [00:18:20] Do you know what that sound is Terry? That's the beginning of an adventure. I love it. It's like, let's go. 

Terry [00:18:28] (Okay, I love it.) Okay, carry on. 

Anita [00:18:30] Okay, So I think we were saying, okay, so if I am stronger than I think, or feel that I am right now, like what would be possible? What would I do differently? And what would be okay for me to do next if I actually am stronger than I think I am. That's another one of these, let's break the mold. Let's get you out of the pit. Let's get your mind working in a completely different direction. It's the most non-dead-end question that you could ask when you're feeling like you're at a dead end. It just says, you know what? What if you turned around and you weren't facing a wall anymore? You know? What if you are stronger than you think? And you're like, what? These are mind, they're supposed to be mind-blowing questions, even though they're so simple. They're so simple. 

Terry [00:19:19] I like the idea of asking myself that question because I'm acknowledging my strength, wherever it might be currently hidden in my body, more than someone else. Because when someone says like, oh, you're so resilient, oh, you're so strong, it seems like I'm lining up ... remember those blow up like clowns and you punched them and they went down and they were weighted in the bottom and they pop back up. And it's like, do not compliment me for how well I take a blow and how many. I don't want to take them. But this is me asking myself that and it's like hey If you can take a deep breath and say, in me somewhere, in me somewhere is the strength to get through this. And on the other side, something better might be waiting. I can see how that could be, Oh, God, it actually choked me up a little bit. So I can see how it could be a real pivot in a more positive direction, or at least turning away from the horribly negative one. 

Anita [00:20:13] That's why I say put them in your phone. (Yeah.) You need to come up with the answers to these questions that your own truest, most amazing inner self is going to give you. And you couldn't come up with your dream, you couldn't come up with what am I gonna do if this is an adventure? And you can't come up with what if I'm stronger than I think I am if you're not asking that of yourself, from yourself, by yourself, to yourself. Yeah, you're right. It could feel so pep talky. And you know, like we were saying in the beginning, here's our three questions that you know, no, no, it's not. This is so the opposite of superficial. (Yes, yes.) This is the deepest, deepest, most true get to what is real and right and healthy for you kinds of questions. If you just ask yourself those questions, and then put them away. Let the work take place at that very deep level within you. Trust me that the work is happening even though you don't see it. It's like, you know, we're running a virus scan on the computer and you don't see it happening, but there's a lot of work going on and just let the work happen. But you can't ask this of other people to get them unstuck. They have to ask it of themselves because their most true, deep, knowing self has to give them the answer. 

Terry [00:21:41] I don't want this episode to end because I know it's your last one. I had never heard the phrase hope whisperer before I met you. 

Anita [00:21:47] It's not mine. It's out there. I just love. I just absolutely love that concept. 

Terry [00:21:51] Well, your face will come up every time I hear or say it because you are. And when you said getting to what's real and getting to what matters, that is the gift I think you have brought to this podcast for the past three years because you just cut through whatever story someone is telling, whatever research someone is sharing with us, whatever it is, I have so admired the way you have listened to it and sat with it and then distilled it and said, as a therapist, you know, as a hope whisperer, this is what I hope you take from this. And I've learned so much from you and I learned so much from every guest that it has been hugely healing for me and really helped me manage my depression as well and mental health in general. So I just want to thank you for everything you've done. 

Anita [00:22:40] Thank you so much for saying that. And I will absolutely take that in. And I feel exactly the same way. I have learned so much from you and from every guest. And one of my favorite Maya Angelou quotes, it's people may not remember exactly what you did or what you said, but they will always remember how you made them feel. I love that because I can't remember every guest, but I absolutely do remember how they made me feel. And what they made me feel was less alone. They made me feel like I wasn't alone on my adventure as a human because here were all these humans willing to show up as their real, authentic selves and talk about the times that were the hardest in their lives. And I felt inspired. I always came away from every episode feeling more hopeful, more of that spirit, that inspiration of we can do this. We are doing this. This person was doing this. We can do this. And yeah, that's that feeling of there's no reason for us to give up hope. Every single person who came on was an example of that. And you're an example of that. And I hope I'm an example of that. But we all need reminders, you know? Even though we are all on our own adventure, we're not doing this alone. And man, between the Giving Voice to Depression Facebook community, how much love and care and responsiveness there is for caring for people who reach out: just amazing and comforting. It's been one of the most beautiful parts of my life so I want to thank you. 

Terry [00:24:30] Oh gosh, thank you. 

Terry [00:24:30] I want to thank you for that, too. And if people, if they want to keep in touch with whatever it is I'm going to be doing next, which I'm going on an adventure, I have sort of a landing page that kind of always lets people know where I am and what I'm doing, and it's AnitaSanz.com. So AnitaSanz.com. And so keep in touch with me. See what I'm doing. 

Terry [00:24:51] Little hit of Anita.

Terry [00:24:52] I will be keeping my eye on making sure that this remains just this beautiful thing, this beautiful thing I've been happy to be a part of. 

Terry [00:25:04] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:25:19] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you, know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive which you can easily find at our website givingvoicetodepression.com. And remember if you're struggling, speak up — even if it's hard. If aomeone else is struggling, take the time to listen