Ep. 352 When Depression Lifts (The Tors Band) update

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast brought to you by Recovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey. They share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co -host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:33] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real. and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope, despite what depression tells you. 

[00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by Recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. This episode was originally produced with sponsorship from the A .B. Korkor Foundation for Mental Health. 

Anita [00:01:31] We record a couple of new interviews each month, and we also replace some older ones so that our newer listeners don't miss out on some of our best ones. Hi, Terry. 

Terry [00:01:42] Hello Anita. So many of us have learned, or just assumed, that we should keep our mental health disorders to ourselves. Nothing good comes from disclosing a highly stigmatized condition like depression or bipolar disorder, right? Well, you might be surprised. Shining light into the darkness brings many benefits, as we have repeatedly heard from our guests. But this is the first time we've brought the story of vulnerable sharing resulting in a hit song. 

Anita [00:02:11] If you listened last week to "If You Need a Minute, Take a Minute", you met Matt Weedon of The Tors, a three -piece harmonic indie band from the UK. We talked with him about the band's new song Anything Can Happen, which was written after a recent episode of Matt's Depression and Anxiety. The song starts with the lyrics, I know it shouldn't hurt to get out of bed, the buttons on my shirt come undone, weigh me down like they're made out of lead. I think I'm getting worse. I don't remember happy. And all I want to do is sleep until I forget. 

Terry [00:02:49] A lot of people relate to that. We also talked about and played the chorus, which includes, "if you need a minute, take a minute, like it's all that you've got. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to stop counting the days that you've lost over and over. No one said it's easy, but it's easy to forget what they say."

Anita [00:03:08]  And that's where we'll pick back up today as we continue our conversation, both about why the band wrote the song and why they think it's resonating so strongly with the people who hear it. Stick around until the end of the episode and we'll play the full song. 

Terry [00:03:26] Also, before we jump into the interview, I wanna update a few numbers. Matt said when we interviewed him that they had a couple million streams of Anything Can Happen, the song that we're profiling. When I just checked and added up the acoustic, the live, the acapella, and the version you'll hear at the end of this episode, that number is now about nine and a half million streams. So clearly we are not the only people with whom this song resonates. 

Anita [00:03:51] Here again is Matt Weedon of The Tors, giving his voice to depression. 

Terry [00:04:05] When Anything Can Happen was released it struck a nerve and a chord. In what the band called an overly indulgent emotional post on social media they wrote "We don't know what's happening!!!" with three exclamation points. "We've never had a reaction like this to any of the music we've put out and we can't honestly express how deeply emotional and thankful it's making us. The songs we write always feel so personal we're terrified people won't relate to them. But reading all your messages and comments and hearing your stories about your own struggles has been inspiring and humbling. We feel well and truly seen and heard."

Matt Weedon [00:04:47] And yeah, it's it's a song that means an incredible amount to me and to the boys in the band, because we all go through things. And I'm kind of just blown away by the reaction it's had and how many people resonate with it. It's a really bizarre feeling because if I'm honest, it's so lovely to know that so many people love the song and can relate to it. But that also makes me feel sad because I'm like, oh, no, there's so many people who feel how I feel or how I felt. And I'm like, oh, it's such a It's a weird time to be alive when everyone is struggling. And it's like, I think it's so great we talk about it now. Like didn't, you know, even like for me five years ago I would never have really opened up about how I felt. But now we can. 

Terry [00:05:29] We can, when it feels safe, because depression and anxiety are not shameful secrets, but rather widely shared experiences. And hearing someone describe something very similar to what we're going through lets us all know we're not the only one. 

Matt Weedon [00:05:47] and on our Instagram for example we had, I don't know, 16,000 followers and it was like really nicely like this, you know, it was a real good fan base of people who connected and we spoke to and we were touring. It's a good bunch of fans but the song comes out and within two weeks we're, I think we're over 150,000 followers now. Wow. And it's just gone crazy. And people, you know, a lot of people, like you said to me when we started, hear these clips we're posting go, well, it sounds beautiful. Like that pulls people in this reverb and this is great. But then they listen to the lyrics and everyone's like, do you know what? I can relate to that. And I feel that. And because it was a song about anxiety and depression. It's just overwhelming the amount of people who message every day and who are from all over the world, which is beautiful and like inspiring. And now we're just trying to react to it in a really positive and healthy way. But yeah, the reaction's been incredible. And the song is streaming, like we've done a couple of million streams in two weeks on the EP, which has been crazy. 

Terry [00:06:53] And that hasn't happened before with a previous song?

Matt Weedon [00:06:56] No, no, we've we always do like we I mean we do well and it's like what we do for a living it's been great but it's just like rocketed and people have really just started to take a notice. So it's been really exciting as a band and it's it's funny that probably the one of the most honest songs we've released today It's the one that's connecting with people the most.

Terry [00:07:16] What does that tell you? 

Matt Weedon [00:07:17] I know, be real, tell the truth, you know, I think something my partner always tells me to do, which I forget, and I think it's just really good advice, is just to be authentic, because that's kind of what makes all of us so special, right, and all of us unique is like who we are, like the things we've gone through, the way we've lived our life, like you are, you know, we've kind of, we've been made into who we are because of the experiences we've had. So be authentic, tell your story, tell the truth, and people, you'll be surprised at how many people. can relate to that and have had similar experiences. Even if you come from a privileged background, you've had a nice life, it doesn't mean like everything's been good and you have to be happy. Just tell how you feel. 

Terry [00:07:56] Matt tells about the numb pain, the pull to stay in bed all day, dark thoughts, and the eventual climb back out of depression's pit. So let's talk about the getting better. Yeah. That you want to go and read me this last part so I'm not stepping on your lyrics. 

Matt Weedon [00:08:16] No, well, yeah. So the second verse is, "I know it isn't much, but I slept through the night. I opened up my curtain so I'd hear the birds get a taste of the light. I think I'm getting better, even if it's slowly. I'm not in a rush to get anywhere fast." 

Terry [00:08:33] Here are The Tors singing about that stage. 

Speaker 4 [00:08:37] I know it isn't much But I slept through the night I opened up my curtains so I'd hear the birds get a taste of the light. I think I'm getting better even if it's slowly, I'm not in a rush to get anywhere fast 

Matt Weedon [00:09:02] And you know, it's so funny because it's summed up for me very well, that first time you, I don't know if you've experienced this, but it's like when you actually sleep through the night and you have a great night, I mean that feeling when you wake up, it's like a drug. You wake up feeling like, oh my God, rested and like, wow, what is this? 

Terry [00:09:26] As for the return of light, that image was not just metaphorical for Matt. He'd gone to stay at his parents' home when things got bad. He kept his room there dark, reflecting his mood, until... 

Matt Weedon [00:09:39] And then I remember like opening my curtains and like I, my parents, I came to live with my parents when I was in a bad place and they live in the countryside and there's, you know, so many birds and I remember opening the curtains and just hearing these birds sing and it's like something, to be fair, I wouldn't think about any other day. It's like, I love, you know, I love birds, bird songs, lovely. But it was like, I remember this morning and just being like, Oh my God. And the light when you can see it really well you can taste it it's like it was almost it hits you and it feels so warm for the first time when I guess you've been in the cold, the cold dark place for so long. It just suddenly felt like you're experiencing things for the first time again, you know. I imagine being a baby and the first time the sun hits you and you're like, what is that? And it was like, kind of like being reborn in a way, which sounds a bit dramatic. But no, that that for me is a real ... It was a turning point, and just that sleep, the sleep is such a hard thing to do, and that really changed a lot, and then I think you start to go, okay, I am getting better. 

Terry [00:10:42] But remember, the line after "I think I'm getting better" is "even if it's slowly."

Matt Weedon [00:10:49] And that's what I'm talking about. Like just to take it slow, it's like the best way for me to go slow and just take your time. And it's like, it's positive. Like you don't, people, I don't know how you find it, but in this day and age, I think we're all looking for a quick fix. And there's so many things available. Like if you've got an illness, you get an antibiotic, you get a drug, like within a week, you're better. Whatever it is, we're all looking for the thing to jump on that gets us there the easiest and quickest way. And sometimes, to get over the hardest things, you've got to just go the long way, you know, you've got to walk the long road. It sounds very like, well, I say cringey, but it is true. In my experience, like the only way of getting better is to go the hardest route because you've got to confront things and you've got to just be okay that it's going to take a while. When I've... turn to things that I think can help me, I often find that they've caused more problems. I don't know. It's like, you know, that's a whole other thing, but having an addiction or thinking that doing something is helping you, it often isn't. You know, and then the last line, I'm not in a rush to get anywhere fast again, it's just like to be okay with that. Once I think once I accepted that this isn't a quick fix, like I found it a lot easier to deal with because when I felt sad or really in a terrible place, I was like it's okay, alright today isn't a good day but tomorrow might be a good day so that i'll take that so in the week you have three good days four bad days whatever i've had three good days okay let's see if next week's any better. It's just i don't know i hope that's okay to say that i don't want to Of course it is. It's just time. It's our only friend. 

Terry [00:12:21] It's, you're reminding me of that quote, the only way out is through. 

Matt Weedon [00:12:24] Exactly 

Terry [00:12:26] And that's pretty much what you're saying. 

Matt Weedon [00:12:27] Yeah, I feel like that. 

Terry [00:12:29] But when you talk about the curtains, for me that's so literal and metaphorical, right? Because the light can't come in if we don't open the curtains. You could have stayed with them shut for another week, week, month, year ... (Yes.) and that we have to make some effort. And I understand there are factors we can't control. I've got it. And I understand. All the checkboxes, right? You know, I'm genetically predisposed to this as well. But if I don't make the effort to open those curtains, the light's not going to get in. 

Matt Weedon [00:13:00] And that's it. And I think it does come a point where you have to suddenly make a change. Cause it is exactly that. The first month when I was at home, I just, my curtains were shut. Like they just stayed shut. I would get out of bed in the dark and go downstairs and I'd come back up to my room and it would be dark and I'd go to bed. 

Terry [00:13:16] Mm -hmm. 

Matt Weedon [00:13:16] And I just sort of forget to like look outside and be like, wow, this is amazing. But it's those, you know, small steps, it's baby steps every day. 

Terry [00:13:25] Matt's steps, when he was ready and able to take them, included establishing a routine and seeing a therapist. 

Matt Weedon [00:13:33] When I couldn't get out of bed or I couldn't do anything. I was like, this isn't helping anyone. And I was like, I'm not going to be in a good place for anybody. And, you know, I had dogs. So I was like, I love my dogs. Right. I'm going to wake up at six. I'm going to go for an hour's walk. I'm going to listen to some podcasts about things that might inspire me or make me feel like I'm not alone. I'm going to talk to my friends. And I dove into my work. I started to write a lot of music. Like I said, I turned to my guitar and that really helped me. And then I think it took me, I mean, it doesn't, it didn't sound like long, but it felt long, but maybe three months to start feeling it's okay, like life's okay, like, you know, I can get past this. And then after that, it's a whole other story, but you know, but it's just taking small steps every day. And of course, I had therapy and that really helped. It was nice to talk to someone who isn't biased and can also maybe help explain to you some things that you're feeling. And I looked into my childhood and that was quite revealing and like overwhelming. I was like, Oh man, I didn't realize like all these things that you go through in your life can stay with you and you can get frozen in a certain time. 

Terry [00:14:35] And it's not just, I think, that the therapist is objective. It's that they have heard other people's stories. So A, nothing you're saying is really like, wait, what? You know, there's something wrong with you. It's like, yes, this is common. This is common for my clients. And it's common for the universe, right? I mean, one in four, one in five people experiences a mental illness or a mental health disorder. (Yeah.) Whether somebody's listening to your song or listening to this episode or listening to your song in this episode, is there a message that you would like to leave from where you've been and from where you are now? I do like to end with hope, but I never mean to candy coat it, right? Because life is real and you're gonna, you might go back and all of that, so. Yeah. 

Matt Weedon [00:15:18] No, no, of course, life is real. Yeah, I think, you know, for me, personally, when it is really bad, it's just to know that it's okay to feel like that, and that it's easy to allow yourself to think that that's forever. But it isn't, like, because everyone I've spoken to are so fortunate, and even all these fans who are reaching out to us about our song, who we've had these conversations with I feel very fortunate just in the experiences is that everyone is getting better, it's just slowly and I think that that's a beautiful thing and it doesn't mean that it's cured or that you're going to be great forever and that's okay. Life is really hard, life is difficult, life is scary, but it is so beautiful and let's all just slow down a little bit and be there for each other. That's kind of like the two best things I could say. 

Anita [00:16:15] So Terry, I, as you know, love the song and I love so much of what Matt said. And the reality is that almost everything in life, whether it's, you know, recovering from depression, whether it's any change, whether it's, you know, trying to get a habit going or undone, anything that's going to last takes a really, really long time. That's, that's the reality. Excruciatingly. excruciating, I was going to say freaking long time, because yes, excruciating is also a good way to describe it. I don't trust fast change, I don't trust overnight change, anything that happens really quickly is going to be undone just as quickly and can be reversed just as quickly. So what I'm always looking for as a therapist and what I'm always looking for in myself when I'm, you know, when I'm looking at a recovery from one of my. you know, my chronic fatigue relapses or something is what I always think of as like the almost imperceptible change. So asking myself, did I feel something this week that I didn't last week? You know, was I able to do something or enjoy something this week that I wasn't able to last week? And even if the answer is just maybe, not even yes, but just maybe, that's good. If I can't even say maybe, I'll say not yet. You know, we always put the not yet as a, it's gonna happen, just not yet. But we're looking for such tiny change that we may not even be able to say yes. And that's actually good. Like opening the window. Yes, something very small. And that's what I love about the song is that he's saying it's not a big deal that he slept through the night, but it's a small change, but that's what we're looking for is this very small, slow change. And if it happens slowly, we can build on it. If it happens slowly, it's likely the kind of change that's going to last, and that's what we want. We don't want to see one day you're incredibly down, and the next day you're at the top of the mountain, because, you know, we know what's going to happen. If you've got highs and lows, you're going to see highs and lows. To get to that middle ground that's gonna last, you wanna see yourself come out of that really nicely and slowly. And I think Matt describes that beautifully. I think that's what we're always looking for. 

Terry [00:18:47] Interesting. When I asked him, what does that tell you? The fact that this has been resonating and more than any other song that they have released. And he said, to tell your truth, basically, right? To be honest, to be vulnerable and ...

Anita [00:18:59] Be authentic. 

Terry [00:18:59] Yes. And also how much we all need to hear that, you know, there's, there's benefit in the hearing as well as in the saying and the, how many people need to hear somebody else describe what can feel like the slow slog out or what can be that. Oh, you know that just that moment, like I slept through the night, but then I actually opened the blinds for a change and I noticed that the birds were singing. All those little things that add up to huge things because you're reconnecting with life. And I just thought, Oh, it's, it's, it's, I just thought it was a great song and I'm so grateful that they were willing to share it with us. Me too. So for you music buffs out there, and we know there are a lot, because an awful lot of guests have shared with us that music is one of their go-to mental health tools. If you go to the band's website, which is TORS, T -O -R -S dot band, check out the about page because Matt, who we've been talking to and who you're about to hear in the song as the lead vocalist, and his brother Theo grew up hearing their grandfather downstairs with other guitarists, including the guitarists from The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and Queen. So pretty good story there if you're interested in that. 

Anita [00:20:11] Wow. And now here's the full song: "Anything Can Happen" by The Tors Band. 

Matt Weedon [00:20:28] I know it shouldn't hurt to get out of bed. The buttons on my shirt come undone, weigh me down like they're made out of lead. I think I'm getting worse, I don't remember happy. And all I wanna do is sleep until I forget. But even when I start to dream every little piece of me gets a little close to the edge of darkness. I know I've been here before. Long as I'm not falling off, I'll be fine. If you need a minute, take a minute like it's all that you've got. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to stop counting the days that you've lost over and over. No one said it's easy, but it's easy to forget what they say. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to take back all the days that you've lost. Anything can happen if you want it enough. I know it isn't much, but I slept through the night. I opened up my curtains so I'd hear the birds get a taste of the light. I think I'm getting better, even if it's slowly. I'm not in a rush to get anywhere fast. But even when I start to dream every little piece of me gets a little close to the edge of darkness. I know I've been here before. Long as I'm not falling off, I'll be fine. If you need a minute, take a minute like it's all that you've got. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to stop counting the days that you've lost over and over. No one said it's easy, but it's easy to forget what they say. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to take back all the days that you've lost. Anything can happen if you want it enough. Oh, oh-whoa. Oh, oh-whoa. Oh, oh-whoa. Anything can happen if you want it enough. If you need a minute, take a minute like it's all that you've got. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to stop counting the days that you've lost over and over. No one said it's easy, but it's easy to forget what they say. Another hour doesn't matter if it helps you to take back all the days that you've lost. Anything can happen if you want it enough. Oh, oh-whoa. Oh, oh-whoa. Oh, oh-whoa. Anything can happen if you want it enough."

Anita [00:23:30] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:23:44] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you, know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive, which you can easily find at our website, GivingVoiceToDepression.com. And remember, if you're struggling, speak up, even if it's hard. If someone else is struggling, take the time to listen.