Giving Voice to Depression podcast Episode 336 The Gift of Vulnerability Transcript

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast brought to you by recovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey they share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us. Instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co-host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:32] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real, and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope despite what depression tells you. 

Terry [00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by Recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. Hi, Terry. Hello, Anita. So this time of year, more than any other, we are inundated with advertisements, expectations and pressures to give gifts. And today we want to encourage that as well. But in a very, very different and potentially powerful and healing way. 

Anita [00:01:45] This episode, well, actually, this podcast is about the power of being vulnerable and talking about versus hiding our human struggles so that others can hear firsthand what someone else, a real person that they can relate to, has gone through, been impacted by, learned to manage hopefully and survived. Without that, we're all isolated by our depression, anxiety, addictions, grief or whatever else has us feeling "othered,"  flawed or just generally not strong, worthy or good enough. 

Terry [00:02:21] Our guest today is Lystra. We crossed paths a few months back without realizing it at the time when we were invited to talk about this podcast at a work retreat for the company I have since joined Recovery.com. And her story is a classic example of how a chance encounter can lead to a chance to shift, heal and reconnect with ourselves and the version of our lives that we recognize as very worth living. 

Anita [00:02:47] And so here now is Lystra giving her voice to depression. 

Terry [00:03:02] I just love how you said that you were embracing the beginning of your mental health recovery journey. I just love that it's not with any embarrassment or shame or it's like you are like, I'm doing what's right for me. I love that. 

Speaker 3 [00:03:15] Yeah, I said. I definitely felt like coming to the realization that I needed help and actually getting help brought so much light into my life. And I felt so light about life and saw so much joy in it. And it was scary getting like, coming to that realization, okay, something's wrong. And initially I was like, embarrassed, I think, and that's why I kept putting it off. Then once I got to that point, I was like, I've got to embrace this. Like, it was kind of scary opening up about it. But then once I did, I'm like, there's nothing to be ashamed of that I'm struggling and I'm glad I'm getting help. So that's what I'm kind of like and just  like I just  want to embrace it. I want to talk to as many people about it as I can, especially with like my friends and stuff. We just don't talk about hard stuff. 

Terry [00:04:02] That's it in a nutshell, isn't it? We just don't talk about the hard stuff. We cover it with smiles and "I'm fines" and avoidance in some effort to appear... Is it strong? in control? Even when the things we're going through are really hard and really scary. So let's start with the symptoms. How how did you know that something was "wrong?" 

Lystra [00:04:26] I think it's I just did not find any joy in life. But the root cause of that all is, I was just so exhausted all the time. No matter how much I slept, no matter how much I try to work out. Because working out usually gives me like a jolt of energy. No matter how much coffee I drank whatever I did, I was just always like exhausted and I felt like my brain was on fire. It felt like there was this thing that was just hugging my brain and preventing me to, like, think and enjoy life. Everything just felt hard. 

Terry [00:04:57] Lystra, a new mother at the time, chalked her symptoms up to the fact her life had changed a lot. She was adjusting to having two very young children born just 18 months apart, and she was juggling a career. Life was just going to be harder now, she reasoned. But her dark thoughts, those were something else altogether. 

Lystra [00:05:19] I started getting, like, really scary thought. Just as I'm driving, I would look at an overpass. They had passed by almost every day to drop off my kids to school, and I'd look at that and think, that's a great place to jump off. Like that's like  the first thought. And then I'd just feel like, why am I thinking this? Like I have the girls giggling away in the back seat. They were so happy to be coming home.  And all I could think about was like, I wish I'm dead. Like, why? Why do I exist like this? And I'd just just push it off. I'm like, oh yeah, Intrusive thoughts. That's what happens sometimes. That happens in postpartum. People just think about, you know, you're just all this intrusiveness coming in. It got to the point where I'm like, I don't think that's normal. I don't think it's normal to look at places and think that could be a great place to die. And that's when I'm like, okay, I think if I don't try to get help, like, I'll just keep getting deeper and deeper into this and it's going to be harder to get out. 

Terry [00:06:14] And I don't think people understand that that that comes completely spontaneously. We are not sitting there, you know, in it, thinking about it and just going over negative thoughts and and getting into some space where that thought might occur to us. We can be smiling, singing a song on the radio, listening to the kids giggle in the backseat and out of nowhere it comes. 

Lystra [00:06:37] Yeah. And I'm just like, Why am I suddenly thinking about that? And all of a sudden my mind starts making all these plans and thinking about the letters I'll  write.  And all these things. I'm just like, Where is this coming from? I don't understand. But then it got to the point where it was happening so often that I just kind of chalked it up to like, Well, I guess this is life right now. Like, that's just... So I put so much energy into like quieting my mind and preventing those thoughts from taking over me that it  then affected all other areas of my life. Like I had no energy to, like, talk to my friends. I had no energy at work to talk to anybody because because I felt like if I talk to someone like the intrusive thoughts will win, because then I'm not,I'm not suppressing it. 

Terry [00:07:19] Suppressing it took a lot of energy. She says she had nothing left for socializing or even thinking clearly. 

Lystra [00:07:27] And once the girls are down, I'm like a zombie shut down. I don't talk to my husband. I'm like, shut up don't  talk me to everybody because I'm just trying to exist and survive. And that's not an existence I would wish for anybody. 

Terry [00:07:41] Listra says she had experienced depression before, after giving birth to her first child. In fact, she believes she was still in it when she got pregnant with her second. But she says the pregnancy sort of reset her hormones and she felt better. This time, it was months after giving birth that depression hit hard. 

Lystra [00:08:00] TSo, like it came back with a vengeance and was really hard to deal with, it  was the way harder than I could ever. And I don't think I would have survived without help. 

Terry [00:08:09] And here's where we get to the power and potential impact of honestly sharing about our lived experiences. It happened to have been Giving Voice, but it could have been anyone willing to get real about depression's symptoms, dark thoughts and lies. It's like opening the door to a previously-hidden room and saying, Come on in, you're not the only one. All of us in here understand. 

Lystra [00:08:34] And I remember sitting, I can still see that I'm sitting in one of the tables, those round oak tables or the white people sitting there and listening to you. And as you were sharing your story and talking about the lies of depression that depression tells you, I started feeling like, okay, I think I'm in much deeper depression than I think I am. Because, like, your story resonated with me about know how like you had kicked your phone underneath a refrigerator, I think was the story of the your like,  you don't really want to die but if  you die,  it's fine, kind of story thing. And I and I thought to myself, like, that's kind of how I'm starting to feel. Like if I if my car crashed, no big deal, like I'm dead. And then it started to feel like kind of scary to be in that mindset because the one thing that I kept thinking about was that what's going to happen to my girls? What's going to happen to my husband if I'm gone? Like, I'm lucky that I don't think any of my thoughts ever were like, They're going to be better off without me. 

Terry [00:09:47] We've got to jump in here and say, if anyone listening is having that thought now- tell someone. Dr. Sanz even recommends going directly to the person you're having that thought about your partner, friend, whomever, and telling them you're having depressive thoughts that are convincing you they'd be better off without you. Give them a chance to tell you you're wrong and to help you get needed support. Call a crisis line like 988 if you want to talk with someone who's very familiar with what we call depression's most dangerous lie. It is just too dangerous a thought to try to manage alone. 

Terry [00:10:24] Okay, back to Lystra and the impact of someone getting really real about depression and its destructive, incessant messaging. 

Lystra [00:10:33] But I've never had anybody talk about it in such a powerful way. And also, like in person, like right in front of me, talk about it and be so vulnerable about it and be so open with the experience. Because when you Google the symptoms of depression where they give you a list, but that doesn't really capture the whole experience of depression where you look at the checklist and you're like, I'm not really like that. Or maybe I'm like that. Like, you know, like it's hard to say, Yep, I totally have the depression symptoms until you actually hear other people talk about it and like what they actually went through in their head. 

Terry [00:11:12] She and her husband talked that night and he strongly encouraged her to get medical attention. 

Lystra [00:11:18] And finally, I did. And when I talked to the doctor, she was like,  it was so easy for her to diagnose me and was like, why didn't you come sooner? And I said I didn't think I was crazy. And she said, Nobody does. Nobody thinks they're depressed.  But the more you talk about it, the more like especially the professional to say, like everything I'm saying, she's like you you check all the boxes. But I'm like I looked at Google and I looked at the symptoms. I didn't know I was checking all the boxes. So that's a tricky part, right? You can read so much into depression and the symptoms and think, okay, I'm preparing myself and I'm trying to look for all these signs. But sometimes you just really need someone to talk to you about what they're going through for you to connect the dots with your own experience and then talk to a professional and say, Hey, is this okay? Am I, am I okay? And that really hard to do, right? Because no one ever wants to say they're not okay. 

Terry [00:12:25] So that's the power of lived experience. And that is something that I also was unaware of before, because no one talked about it, and so I didn't know when I had it. And when we hear somebody and we say "experts by experience," right? It's not experts by studying, It's not a lot of letters behind your name. It's none of that stuff. It's saying,oh  my gosh, I hear exactly what you're saying. Mine's very similar or or pretty different,  but I get those threads that are common between us, so I understand it better. So once you started talking about it, once you got treatment, let's start with the treatment and just tell me what happened from that. And then I want to ask what happened in your wider world once you started talking about it? 

Lystra [00:13:09] Yeah. So once I started treatment, the my, my doctor was like, you have two options you could try and you could go extreme and go like, not extreme, extreme is a weird word. So we could go do antidepressants or we could try birth control. But given that I had really bad, intrusive thought we were like  let's take that antidepressants. She she shared that it might not work right away. And then if this one doesn't work, we'll try a different one. So she was just kind of preparing me to not expect miracles right away, which is good because I was all like, I just I just I just need help. 

Terry [00:13:48] Despite that need and the encouragement, diagnosis and prescription Lystra were received, taking the meds was still not an easy or natural decision for her. 

Lystra [00:14:00] I guess the stigma of having to take a medication to feel better, I felt kind of like like why couldn't I fight through this by myself? Or why do I need this? 

Terry [00:14:09] It seemed like a weakness to need it?

Lystra [00:14:12] Yeah, I felt like I wasn't strong enough to fight through it and that, like, what's wrong with me? Like, why, why, why do I have this? Why do I need medication? So I just stared at it for so long and I texted my husband and just as I was about to text him, he was he sent a message. He was on a flight to Germany then and he sent a message like, Have you taken it? And I said oh shoot, I should. I should just take it. Like, if anything, you know, like, what's the harm? Let's try it at least I'm taking a step forward. So I took the first dose and went to bed. 

Terry [00:14:53] And that single brave step off the familiar, dark, painful path toward the possibility of a brighter and healthier one shifted something in Lystra. 

Lystra [00:15:03] And the next day, it's so funny; the next day I felt like a new person. I felt like it was so strange because people were like the doctor was telling me that I shouldn't expect like like relief right away. But somehow I felt like the fire that was in my brain was put out. My body felt so calm, my body didn't feel uptight or like always stressed and strained. My head felt so cold. I've never had like, such a cold brain in a long time. It was like, it was like someone poured ice water on me and said, Hey, wake up. And like, and that and I remember that getting up, getting my, my, my baby a bottle of milk. And I was like, how lucky of me to be alive right now, to be able to be able to go downstairs, make a bottle for my baby, wake her up, give her a cuddle. Like I've never felt that before. Like in a really long time, Like that pure love and excitement and joy to wake up my girls. It used to always be like, oh my God, I'm still alive. And, like, dragging my feet. Like, I'm excited for them. I want to be the best mom for them. And I always put the best foot forward and kind of put this like mask all the symptoms and just be like the best mom that they can think of. But inside I was dying. And I was miserable. But like, this time, I was like, I honestly felt so much joy taking care of them and hugging them. 

Terry [00:16:39] I've never heard of anything working with a single dose and certainly not an antidepressant, which it may well have. I mean, I have absolutely no idea. I'm not a doctor. But I also wonder if there was just an element of you finally had some hope. 

Lystra [00:16:54] I think that's it too. Because like after that first week I think, it sort of mellowed out. And then within the second, third week, we did have to adjust my dose because I felt the darkness coming back. So I think that morning was just with an awakening of this is this is the beginning of my journey. I'm getting help. I'm starting to see some difference in it. But yeah, you're right. It could be just like the whole like everything just coming together and me being just really excited about like, okay, this is it. I'm now on  like a very positive path, like a path full of hope, you know, and just embracing life again versus like, not making that step forward and just being continue being stuck in the darkness and thinking it was going to be my life forever. I'm like probably a month in to my taking the meds. And it's not like a, you know, angels moment every day, but it's it's a lot better than I used to be. 

Terry [00:17:57] Lystra says that when she started talking openly to her friends and sharing her diagnosis and experience, she learned for the first time that some of them had also experienced depression, were also on meds, also had inside information that for any number of reasons, they had chosen not to share before. 

Lystra [00:18:17] I wished more conversations were had where they were that actually I took help. I needed help and got help. I think I would have connected the dots better or faster for sure with my own life and say, okay, I think something's wrong with me. 

Terry [00:18:33] So now that you're the person talking, and you will have a literal audience of listeners, hopefully to this episode, what is the message that you want to communicate to them about the power of talking, the power of vulnerability, the power of lived experience, whatever it might be like? 

Lystra [00:18:53] I think be open to accepting help and talking about that you needed help and that you needed medication to get through whatever you're going through. And it's it's there's nothing to be ashamed about having to take medication because I think that was the one of the things that really held me back was the shame of having to ask for help, that I couldn't fix it myself, that I felt like I wasn't enough. And to just be more open with everybody in your life because, you know, we we hide all these hard things that we're going through, but. And that's not going to help anybody. 

Lystra [00:19:34] Because I was raised in a very Asian household of no, you keep your struggles to yourself. You grin and bear it. You just get through life. You don't talk about your struggles. You just try to do the best you can with your life and be great. And anything hard you suppress. But that's not helping. That didn't help me. That I could have helped, you know, my friends and I could have connected about this a lot more and a lot sooner and gotten help a lot sooner. So yeah, I think just taling about it is so helpful and powerful and being open to listening to someone else talk about their story, too and just being there for people. 

Terry [00:20:18] Yeah, we need to find safe spaces and we need to be safe spaces. 

Lystra [00:20:22] Yes, I like that. I like that. We need to be safe spaces. Like be a space for like myself and everybody have a safe space for yourself, but also safe space for others. I think that's the hard part about depression for me was I didn't feel like I was a safe space for myself. I was so hard on myself. I didn't have a safe space to go to. But now I feel safe in myself. I feel like my mind is not trying to kill me. And I feel safe and loved for myself and am now ready to, and I want people to feel that I can be a safe place for them if they need it. 

Anita [00:21:11] So, Terry, I think right at the very end, first we need to just talk about that, how important being a safe space is and why educating yourself about mental health and depression and addictions and suicide to actually be helpful is so important. So I loved that we need to find safe spaces, but we also need to be safe spaces. 

Terry [00:21:34] And to be a safe space for ourselves. I had never heard it worded that way, that we that we generally aren't when we're in depression because we're believing the lies and really being quite unkind to ourselves. But immediately when I heard it, I was like, That's it. You know, I totally understand that. So, yeah, it was a really good way to word it. 

Anita [00:21:54] And then, you know, the other thing that really stood out when you were talking with Lystra, it was kind of buried in the middle of the interview, but it was something that I thought was so important. And it's this concept that it takes a lot of energy to suppress the depressive thoughts. And the way Lystra talked about it was that it was so much energy it took that it became like this full-time job. And she said there was nothing left for her, you know, for socializing or thinking clearly. And this this really struck me because this is so similar to people who've been diagnosed with obsessive compulsive disorder, who have an an intrusive thought process that will not stop -rumination, that will not stop. And that is so similar to that depressive thought process, that just it starts becoming a full- time job just to try to suppress all of that. And then the fatigue and the wanting to isolate and the inability to to do the things that you've always been able to do in your life. It makes so much more sense when you recognize that you're you're doing an extra full time job. 

Terry [00:23:03] It is. It's exhausting. And hearing her talk about how hearing someone say, you know, this is what it's like for me, this is what I experienced, and having that light bulb go off, that, this is medical and it's not just me makes me so grateful to every guest we have had, including Lystra, who is willing to share their experience so that other people who are listening can have that same realization. 

Anita [00:23:29] Yes,  it's not just me and almost everyone who goes through this experience experiences something very similar. 

Terry [00:23:37] Yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to recognize and it's hard to remember when you're in it, but it's critically important. 

Anita [00:23:45] Yeah. Our interviewees are such gifts, right? 

Terry [00:23:48] Yeah. Right. Gifts. There we are again. Another gift. Yeah. 

Anita [00:23:57] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:24:11] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive, which you can easily find at our website givingvoicetodepression.com. And remember if you are struggling, speak up. Even if it's hard if someone else is struggling, take the time to listen.