326_I Felt I Wasn't Enough

Terry [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to the Giving Voice to Depression podcast brought to you by Rcovery.com. Each week we profile a guest who shares intimate details of their mental health journey they share because they understand that when people don't talk about their depression or other mental health conditions, those of us who struggle with them can feel like we're the only ones, that there's something wrong with us instead of understanding that we have a common and treatable illness. I'm Terry, the creator and co-host of this podcast. 

Anita [00:00:32] And I'm Dr. Anita Sanz, a licensed clinical psychologist with more than 25 years in clinical practice. I know from both personal and professional experience how significantly mental health and other disorders can impact not just our lives, but those around us as well. By speaking openly and with the wisdom of lived experience, we help normalize conversations that are often avoided due to shame or stigma. Our episodes are honest and real, and we keep them hopeful because there truly is hope, despite what depression tells you. 

Terry [00:01:07] This podcast is brought to you by Recovery.com, whose mission is to help each person find the best path to recovery through a comprehensive, helpful network of treatment providers for both mental health and addiction treatment worldwide. Hello, Anita. 

Anita [00:01:28] Hi, Terry. You know, we started last week's episode with a beautiful poem. And we got such positive feedback that we're taking the opportunity to share another one that we found. This is by Trudy Jane of Poetry, Prose and Pondering. She writes:  "I'm not saying it will be the same as you may once have expected it to be. I'm not saying it will always be easy to keep moving forward. I'm not saying if you can't, then you are the problem or haven't tried. 

Terry [00:01:58] I am saying you deserve to experience the best life you can despite circumstances. I am saying you deserve to have happiness despite the odds. I am saying that you can try again or even try again in a different way. I am saying that I hope you see all the magic that lives in you. Choose you. "

Anita [00:02:19] While that message is for each and every one of you listening. It is also for today's guest, Bob, a suicide attempt survivor who had never publicly shared his story before. He made the brave decision to honestly share about his journey so that others can learn from real life experience that the bottom does not have to be the end. We are reviving this interview from our archives for this last week of Suicide Prevention Month in the hopes that this story will revive some hope in you. 

Terry [00:02:51] This interview was originally produced with funds from Mental Health America of Wisconsin. Here now is Bob giving his voice to depression. 

Terry [00:03:08] Well, before we start, I want to just establish that before you did this interview, you asked your therapist if it was okay for you to do it. 

Bob [00:03:15] I did. I certainly did. I've had the same cognitive behavioral therapist for nearly five years now. And when you had mentioned the opportunity to do this with you, I did chat with her about it and she said, By all means, if you feel comfortable doing it, go ahead. She felt that I my my place in life and where I am right now is strong enough that it certainly wouldn't wouldn't be harmful to me. And my intent with this is to hopefully help others who are thinking about suicide or who have attempted and are on the road to recovery. To share, I guess, the message of my struggles and my return back from those struggles to a place right now that at 64, I feel better than maybe I've ever felt in my life. 

Terry [00:04:02] In case you missed those last critical words, here they are again:. 

[00:04:07] At 64., I feel better than maybe I've ever felt in my life. 

Terry [00:04:12] Please keep that in mind as we go back to learn about how different Bob felt just five years ago about his future and himself. 

Speaker 3 [00:04:22] Well, I was in a depression. I'd also been misdiagnosed with a hip problem. I was on some pain pills, and that certainly didn't help me emotionally, mentally or physically in the end. I was struggling with a lot of things in my personal life. And so there were a lot of pressures that I wasn't sure that I could just keep keep going. I looked at my longevity and looked what I still had to what I felt I had in front of me. And it was something that I just felt that, you know, I don't know how I'm going to keep doing this. I couldn't find a level of peace and calm, things that I thought would fulfill me. I couldn't find that that level of fulfillment that I felt like I was doing good for other people. And I just felt like my contributions just weren't enough and therefore I wasn't enough. 

Terry [00:05:24] We call depression a lying bully at the start of each episode, and convincing us we're not enough is one of its harshest lies. Believing that lie creates the fertile earth where the really dangerous deception can thrive, that others would be better off without us. Because as dozens of attempt survivors have shared here, that thought removes the life saving hurdle that we really don't want to hurt the people we love. 

Bob [00:05:54] And I think for me, it became. Is, I think, through this sort of twofold; one was, I'm tired of feeling this way. I just am I'm not functioning. I'm no good to anyone this way. Let me get out of the way so other people can just live their life without having to worry about poor Bob, who's sick and who's been through treatment and who's caused so much pain in the past. Those were the stories I started to tell myself. So it was more of it started there and then it manifested into I just can't do this anymore. I just can't. I just can't. I can't live this way. And there is only one way out. Because I can't fight anymore. And I can't disappoint people anymore. And I can't drag down other people's lives. So I'm just going to get out of the way and be done and everyone will be happy and I'll be at peace. 

Terry [00:07:00] That's that burden syndrome. "Burden" man, that word. Whenever that thought crosses our minds, that is so dangerous. Was it sudden? Was it like, I've got to do this now, I've got to do this now? Was it something you've been planning for weeks? 

Bob [00:07:15] No. It was very sudden. That's so they say, probably within 15 minutes of the thought. 

Terry [00:07:24] So fast forwarding, I assume you wake up in a hospital. 

Bob [00:07:30] I did. 

Terry [00:07:31] And that immediate thought is it; shit I couldn't even do that? Or is it I'm so glad to be alive? Or is it something completely different than either of those? 

Bob [00:07:44] I don't know that I woke up thinking I was so glad to be alive. But I woke up thinking I'm alive. I woke up wondering what lies ahead of me. I didn't know that. I don't remember having a thought that says, Damn, I wish I was dead. I don't remember that thought. 

Terry [00:08:08] One thing Bob does remember clearly and never plans to forget is the compassion and care he received from a medical professional that day. 

Bob [00:08:17] I had a nurse who in the recovery room was incredibly kind to me. She held my hand. She wept with me. She spoke to me about how glad she was, even though she had no idea who I was, that I was alive. And that conversation, that warmth that she shared with me put me in a different place. She then followed me. Asked if she could follow me to my permanent room, where my recovery was going to happen and stayed with me through an extra shift, which was just remarkable. And this was a person I did not know. I did not know. That stuck with me as something that was one of the many catalysts I think, that helped me heal through this and get to a point and decide that I am worth living for and that my life is worth living. 

Terry [00:09:28] Is it that if a stranger can find me worthy, I can? I mean, is that the thought process? Am I hearing that right? 

Bob [00:09:38] Yeah, I think I think there's something to that, that I'm certain that she was a remarkable human being who valued her own life. And I don't know what had happened, you know, within her life either. Maybe there had been someone that she had lost. I'll never know that. But I think there is something to that thought that that helped me in a way that I  didn't know possible. It was such a simple thing. But it was remarkable on her part that she stayed with me and supported me. 

Terry [00:10:15] The thought that I'm having, and again I don't know if it's true for you, is that she saw value in you just because you're a human being, not because you had any car or any house or any background or any education or any anything. You had value as a human being. 

Bob [00:10:32] Exactly. She didn't know anything about me. (wow) But she valued me as a as a person. I should be supported and I should live and I should get through this. 

Terry [00:10:47] Did that take some pressure off to realize all you had to be to be worthy of of life was being a human as opposed to being a highly successful or whatever other words had been put in front of that word for you. 

Bob [00:11:00] I wish I could say I remember it really clearly. I do. But I do think so. I think... 

Terry [00:11:08] I even mean now. 

Bob [00:11:10] Oh yeah, it does. And as I reflected back on this, it was a starting point for me that that helped me get grounded in the belief that, wow, this could have been it, Bob.  Could have been it. And um,  I think it helped me put my life into a different perspective and into a place that said, okay, you really have to get serious now about about what is happening in your head. And you have to, you have to approach this so much differently. And there can't be any distraction. Your mental health is your most important thing right now. And so I, I didn't fight that thought. 

Terry [00:12:01] A quick note. If you are not aware of how dangerous a time those first weeks after discharge can be for a suicidal person, please look up our podcast episode 133 called Post Hospitalization Risks. Listen to it. Share it. Because for whatever reason, hospitals often don't communicate to survivors or their families the alarming risk during that time. 

Terry [00:12:29] Back to Bob. He's worked at the same company for decades and was fortunate enough to get a 90 day leave of absence from his job. He committed to using that time to learning new coping skills, understanding the illness, and building his resilience to it. 

Bob [00:12:46] It took a lot of pressure off of me, knowing that this was my time to heal. This was my time to begin a regimen of therapy that would help me. And I did that. I went into inpatient treatment for, I think ten days. And it was a very difficult ten days. Some of the difficult things were confronting my family about what I had done, not confronting, but sharing with them, telling them what I had done. 

Terry [00:13:20] Oh,  you had to tell your children? 

Bob [00:13:22] Yes. Two adult children, a sister and an aging father. And that was really hard. That was really hard. Wow. Yeah. 

Terry [00:13:37] That's a conversation. 

Bob [00:13:39] Yes. 

Terry [00:13:42] It said that from the outside looking in, mental illness is really hard to understand and that from the inside looking out, it's really hard to explain. Well, suicide, whether recurring thoughts of it, an attempt or a death are exponentially harder. Not everyone is going to be able to understand, to forgive, to move past it. Suicide affects whole families and communities. And that truth is something else attempt survivors have to recover from. 

Bob [00:14:16] So and then I also, at that point in time started seeing three therapists. I had a DVT specialist, my cognitive behavioral specialist, and another therapist for talk therapy. And I did all three of those therapists for the better part of almost two years. And it was a lot of work, and I took it seriously. The therapy that worked the most for me was cognitive behavioral therapy. It helped me work on my fears. It helped me work on things that maybe I'd always wanted to try to do, but I was afraid to try to do because I was worried about the results. It helped me with my body self-esteem, which had been a problem for me all my life. And at the end of the day, I think what it really helped me get back to was helping me live my life according to my values. I never felt like I was someone who sought approval from other people. But I think I sought to fit in and maybe not stand out. I think I sought to fit in in a way that I was deemed by so many as a success; home, cars, trips, kids, clothes. Some are basic needs and some became much more extravagant. And I didn't find joy in the extravagant part of that. 

Terry [00:15:48] So you may have just answered this in part between therapy and a values-based life, but you still have depression. 

Bob [00:15:56] I do. 

Terry [00:15:56] And so I assume, like the rest of us, sometimes the thoughts turn dark. Are you able to catch them early now and do something or some things to to protect yourself? How do you keep yourself from hopefully ever nearing, what, long crossing that line again? 

Bob [00:16:17] Well, that's a really important question I think for anyone who's struggling with depression and especially those of us who've attempted.  I've been pretty transparent about my suicide attempt with a handful of people that I just love and trust totally. They don't judge me. They believe in me for who I am or what my values are and how I lead my life. And so I will reach out to them. I'm really good at saying "I'm not quite right. Can we talk for a while?" And that has really helped me a great deal. 

Terry [00:17:02] Bob, like many of us, also benefits from creating and maintaining routines, controlling those things we can control. 

Bob [00:17:11] Even during Covid, which has been difficult, I got up every morning, I showered, I shaved, I got dressed. I did everything I could to make sure that I was leading a life that wouldn't allow me to slip away quickly into a dark place that would be hard for me to get out of. I took care of myself. At some point, a handful of months ago, I got real serious about my diet. I've been really trying to take care of my mind, body, soul and spirit as best I know how. 

Terry [00:17:47] There's a phrase and a book titled The Body Keeps the Score. Its theme, to quote a summary is that the effects of trauma live on not only in the emotional mind and the chemical makeup and circuitry of the brain, but also in the body's physiology. In the case of a suicide attempt, that trauma may also be visible. 

Bob [00:18:09] And there are times that I forget. I forget that I nearly took my life. I have reminders of that and those reminders are good for me visually to remember, because I don't let myself get back to that place again. I will not. 

Terry [00:18:32] So would 59 year old Bob ever have believed that 64 year old Bob would be happy? 

Bob [00:18:37] No. No. 

Terry [00:18:40] Are you? Are you glad you're alive? 

Bob [00:18:41] Gosh, I'm glad I'm alive. Every minute of every day. I'm glad I'm alive. And more and more so every day. I think the more I get back to really living my values, to doing the very simple things that I love, and acknowledging the fact that I am enough, just as I am. And being able to be authentic about what I love and what I don't love and who I love, who I've chosen to maybe slip away from. I find that that authenticity is what has made 64 year old Bob believe that I'm just really at the starting point of what happiness is really about. And 59 year old Bob never would have thought that. Never would have thought that. 

Anita [00:19:51] So, Terry, I have so many thoughts about this episode. I really, really love Bob, first of all. And the first thing was, you know, kind of at the beginning of the episode when he talked about what we called that burden syndrome. 

Terry [00:20:05] Yes. 

Anita [00:20:06] And how dangerous that that thought. Once that begins to enter your mind, that you are a burden to the people that you love, you must immediately get either confirmation or disconfirmation from the from the people that you love. It's going to be disconfirmation, although you won't believe that. But that's absolutely critical to do if that starts happening. 

Terry [00:20:28] So you ask them, you say, am I a burden to you? You say, would you be better off if I was gone? How do you seek that? 

Anita [00:20:34] I think I would start with admitting that I'm having this thought or this feeling. You know, I've been feeling like I'm just a burden and that you would be better off without me. And I just need to know how you feel about that. I think you have to admit it and then give that person a chance to to say what they need to say. And of course, if they're somebody who knows how to respond, they're going to recognize how critical it is at that point that we get some help. We get some extra resources. 

Terry [00:21:05] What a powerful conversation that would be. 

Anita [00:21:07] That would be great. The other thing in this episode that I was so struck by, and I'm sure you were, too, was that E.R. nurse and. Wasn't that beautiful? 

Terry [00:21:18] Yes. 

Anita [00:21:19] Her kindness and her saying that she was glad that he was alive had such incredible power for him, staying an extra shift to make sure he could transfer to his room. You cannot tell me that there are not earth angels. She really showed him by her actions that he had value and he had worth, and she didn't even know him. Yeah. So I was so impressed with that. And I just hope that people recognize that something that that may seem like such a small gesture is actually sometimes the biggest one can make the biggest difference. 

Terry [00:21:58] And I happen to know Bob, and I think that he is just a model for walking the talk of reaching out if you need support. Because when he does, he not only alerts his care team, his family, his friends, he doesn't care if he hasn't seen you in years, if he knows you to be a safe space and someone he can have those conversations with and say, I am really struggling, he's going to reach out. And I just applaud that. I'm so amazed when we actually see that in action and see that it works. 

Anita [00:22:29] Yes. I mean, one of the most powerful things that that he said was, you know, you have to you have to get serious about what is happening in your head. That's what he told himself. And and that's really true. It's when those thought those thoughts begin to enter, they take hold. Then they get a grip on you. They start suggesting, you know, again that you're a burden, that you shouldn't be here. You do have to get serious about it. And, you know, he he really did model what we say. He got three therapists. He  worked in therapy for two years. And sometimes, you know, hearing that might make people feel like, my God, that's such a long time or I don't think I could do that. But then he also said, I feel better than I've ever felt in my life. Right. This this really does show that you can be suicidal and and even have an attempt and then get to a place in your life where you feel better than you've ever felt. And if that's not hopeful, I don't know what is. That's just that's just an incredible, incredible thing that happened there. 

Terry [00:23:30] It is indeed. And it is the perfect way for us to end our Suicide Prevention and Awareness Month episodes. Thank you, Bob. Thank you for sharing and for trusting us to share your story publicly for the first time. 

Anita [00:23:48] We truly hope that our podcast brings a little more understanding, helps you better articulate and reflect on your own experience with depression, or better understand how to support someone else who is struggling. 

Terry [00:24:01] If this episode has been of comfort or value to you know that there are hundreds of others like it in our archive, which you can easily find at our website. Giving voice to depression.com. And remember if you are struggling, speak up. Even if it's hard if someone else is struggling, take the time to listen.